hiteshbhai,
for u it may not sound convincing, that doesnt mean it is not convincing. current indian mentality is just reflection of Victorian n jehadi mentality about art- n its not indian at all. in my all four articles i have given point... by point answers with facts (not opinions ) without considering single of dem...hussain bashers just in hurry to present thier repeatably programmed response (not of theirs, as tyhey cant sustain in single argument but its smart 'inception' of a so called hindutva propaganda. as i respect u as lover of the language, beyond amitabh's example point was absolutly clear. as i mentioned yday-comman ppl's perception in name of faith (?) may favored satipratha too in past-but it took time (n firm progressive governance) to change mindset. but freedom of expression don't need laymen opinion as it is clearly defined by high court n supreme court of india...n my explanation was nothing but extension of supreme court's verdict on hussain. now if ur not convinced with supreme court of india, than its fine
The following convesation happened today online:
The following convesation happened today online:
Dear Jaybhai...oh! thanks for the response...yes, u r right. If something doesn't sound convincing to us, it doesn't mean it is not convincing at all. We at best can give our perceptions, the final judgement comes out from the discussions... . Apart from those paintings which I see as blunders that even men with logical mind sometimes commit in their life, I have no problem with M F Husain or his other paintings, rather it is difficult not to get impressed by whatever is being written about him in newspapers and magazines. He was the man who didn't only live his life fully but also savoured it to the fullest... I firmly believe in Supreme court's verdict on freedom of expression, but, at the same time I must say an artist can not do everything that pleases his whims and fancies. Do you believe an artists' work is above the people and the scrutiny of supreme court esp when it hurts the sentiments of an entire community? I hope you don't.
dear hitesh, as i already explianed in detail many times-if in creativity n truth community sentiments are considered-mankind cant have railway engine, porinting press, medical science, rocket science too...n we cud hav continued satipratha... , ashprushtya, vidhvagruh at kaashi etc on name of so called religious sentiments. its upon we- if we want to seat besides pakistan, afghanistan in mindset, or france, usa. that wil decide future of a nation. community which is not hurt by selling of 'tulsi' (scared plant in india, wife of shaligram -vishnu) brand gutka in REAL life, n make fuss about VIRTUAL art-itself have double standards-n ignorance towards its own ancient scriptures n sculptures. it seems u didnt take care to read all past articles in detail. being a man of literature u must dear.
u reply so fast!! well thanks again...i will read those four articles u mentioned....Satipratha, and all those things are fine and can be understood...but not this...no problem...
that shows exactly the mental block..as i told, virtua;l creative things r inacceptable in name of faith, but real things r digestable :D its coz since centuries india has been affected by jehadi / victorian effect...n lost what creativity ...or artistic sense is all about :P btw, if u cant accept these things-its gud that u dont read sanskrit or travel in india-as u will noyt going to acceepte many scared texts n temples too
kher let me tell u I am reading 'Yuva hava' second time. Am Enjoying it. Enjoyed the artcles on Sabir and Kabir, shri krishna, Gandhi and particularly the one on E. I. emotional intelligence...your articles do make readers think..that is what I like and the other thing is that it seems words are always at your service like true friends....It is always pleasure to read u...
arey arey...aqam to hu pachho jadiyo padiyo thai jaish FULAAI NE
No, Jaybhai, i mean what i say. I never say anything that i don't believe in...i have always appreciated ur commitment with writing.
23-06-2011
I read the articles on M F Husain u suggested on your blog. After having read all you have written there what remains is just the final note from me on our discussion on M F Husain’s paintings controvercy. I request you to form you answer, ...if you think answer is necessary, after completing the entire note
After reading those articles I have concluded that your forceful support to M F Husain over this controversy comes basically from the fact that M F Husain was a pure artist. And that there was no malicious bone in his mind when he was drawing those paintings. Apart from this, you have your evidences from the history to support your arguments. These are enough reasons to support anyone we think needs to be vindicated.
If you read my earlier arguments, you will notice that I didn’t write anything that writes off Husain as a human being or as an artist. I just said I see such paintings or in fact any such artistic work as rash blunders made by artists which mars their own prestige and goals. When I say I can’t appreciate those paintings, my point quite simple which is: Why attach nudity to god and goddesses or any person we revere for no rhyme or reason? At least exclude them. Here you will interrupt me with proofs from history: the 50 feet tall nude idol of Bahubali in Shrvanbelgoda , Kalidas’ narration of love-making of Shiva and Parvati in Kumarsambhavam....Now which sculture will make an idol of Bahubali in clothes after reading his history? and who knows whether people of that era criticized Kalidas or not when there is but little information on Kalidas himself in this 21st century?
People may not like nudity attached to their idea of God and goddesses whom they revere but it seems artists are keen on that!! What artistic pleasure will any Christian get from picture of nude Mary or any Indian from the pictures of nude Saraswati or Bharat mata whom we have always seen in clothes? This is the question that common people are asking. Not all who don’t like such painting are hooligans….Common people are not members of Bajarang dal, or any RSS linked dals nor will they stage violent attack on Husain or his paintings. Will any whim and fancy of the artist be tolerated on the name of Freedom of Expression? A lot many things can be done under that title, but centruries after centruries such controversies will comes to fore. A lot of fuss resulting from the writer’s keen desire not to follow the emotions of the people? What to do? When Husain thought he should apologize, he said: I apologize if my paintings hurt the sentiments of people… humanbeings comes first …Arts comes next…
What happened with M F husain is no doubt a matter of concern. A creative artist is always in possession of multi-faceted personality and that’s we can’t afford to judge them with one aspect of their personality( and for that matter can’t be justified for his negative aspect just because rest is good in them). If that happens, it shows that something is wrong with particular artistic fraternity which failed to explain people the worth of the artist. That’s why I have been able to revere artist like Amitabh Bachchan, Chandrakant Bakshi or for that matter you.
You may ask me to broaden the horizon of my thoughts and be more tolerant. But the main thing is not the problem, the problem is boundry line. How much liberal can/should a person be? When you protested against the fact that we can’t unfurl national flag, I had agreed with that. But when you say national flag bikini show patriotism, I differ. Now I can’t dictate those who show their patriotism wearing bikini, but we have to stick to our guns if we think we are right.
At the end of the blog you have said you might lose a few of your readers..I say you will lose any real reader because they like not because you say what they believe or dislike you because you say what they don’t believe.. they like because of your commitment to writing and to the readers…such controversies most of the time are non-issues. The main thing is the contribution of the artist which should be saluted…
After reading those articles I have concluded that your forceful support to M F Husain over this controversy comes basically from the fact that M F Husain was a pure artist. And that there was no malicious bone in his mind when he was drawing those paintings. Apart from this, you have your evidences from the history to support your arguments. These are enough reasons to support anyone we think needs to be vindicated.
If you read my earlier arguments, you will notice that I didn’t write anything that writes off Husain as a human being or as an artist. I just said I see such paintings or in fact any such artistic work as rash blunders made by artists which mars their own prestige and goals. When I say I can’t appreciate those paintings, my point quite simple which is: Why attach nudity to god and goddesses or any person we revere for no rhyme or reason? At least exclude them. Here you will interrupt me with proofs from history: the 50 feet tall nude idol of Bahubali in Shrvanbelgoda , Kalidas’ narration of love-making of Shiva and Parvati in Kumarsambhavam....Now which sculture will make an idol of Bahubali in clothes after reading his history? and who knows whether people of that era criticized Kalidas or not when there is but little information on Kalidas himself in this 21st century?
People may not like nudity attached to their idea of God and goddesses whom they revere but it seems artists are keen on that!! What artistic pleasure will any Christian get from picture of nude Mary or any Indian from the pictures of nude Saraswati or Bharat mata whom we have always seen in clothes? This is the question that common people are asking. Not all who don’t like such painting are hooligans….Common people are not members of Bajarang dal, or any RSS linked dals nor will they stage violent attack on Husain or his paintings. Will any whim and fancy of the artist be tolerated on the name of Freedom of Expression? A lot many things can be done under that title, but centruries after centruries such controversies will comes to fore. A lot of fuss resulting from the writer’s keen desire not to follow the emotions of the people? What to do? When Husain thought he should apologize, he said: I apologize if my paintings hurt the sentiments of people… humanbeings comes first …Arts comes next…
What happened with M F husain is no doubt a matter of concern. A creative artist is always in possession of multi-faceted personality and that’s we can’t afford to judge them with one aspect of their personality( and for that matter can’t be justified for his negative aspect just because rest is good in them). If that happens, it shows that something is wrong with particular artistic fraternity which failed to explain people the worth of the artist. That’s why I have been able to revere artist like Amitabh Bachchan, Chandrakant Bakshi or for that matter you.
You may ask me to broaden the horizon of my thoughts and be more tolerant. But the main thing is not the problem, the problem is boundry line. How much liberal can/should a person be? When you protested against the fact that we can’t unfurl national flag, I had agreed with that. But when you say national flag bikini show patriotism, I differ. Now I can’t dictate those who show their patriotism wearing bikini, but we have to stick to our guns if we think we are right.
At the end of the blog you have said you might lose a few of your readers..I say you will lose any real reader because they like not because you say what they believe or dislike you because you say what they don’t believe.. they like because of your commitment to writing and to the readers…such controversies most of the time are non-issues. The main thing is the contribution of the artist which should be saluted…
sorry buddy, i adice u to read it asgain as ur points raised are anwerted in it too. u tend to pick up few lines from it n tends to leave others coz of strong mental bias while reading...ek ek shabd chavi chavi ne vachva ni salah hu varmvar amasti j nathi aapto...
I know that the point I have raised is already answered in those three articles, but somewhere we have to stop ourselves and say that here we differ...
but i do agree n apriciate ur balanced writing here n views on art in general..thnx for that...u hav triede to discuss it wth dignity n genuine honesty n i respect dat. :)
Thanks for nice words...dignity and honesty ...they r the quality that attracts two people and sustains the relationship
there can be difference of opinion in viewpoints dear-just hrs befor i wrote abt at under ranmal sindhav's comment on my wall. but in name of difference of opinion wrong facts can not be accepted by me. it may look bit stubborn - but its m...y nature. :P
what few doubts abt bharatmata u hav raised is already answered by court -n i mentioned that. bharatmata is just century old concept potrayed in bankimchsandra's aanandmath when coutry has been given a female form of worshipped idol. at that time (19th century) our gods n goodessess had calander art in printing so laxmi to sarswati hasd south indian to gujarati sarees etc. in same form bharatmata had been visulised..now an artist can play wth the form n color...dats wat creative imagination is all about (n wat endorsed by d court too)...regarding objection against kalidas or sculptures in ancinet times- point is across d things all such things remain intact-means voice raised against them clearly thrown out by authorities then.
india by nature was against censorship wth religious mindset on art in sexyality..its impact aftr radical islam..(taalibani mindset created in india-exported to [pakistan) n victroian british catholic culture...so aftr middle time oyer defination of culture n values changed...rather, influenced...moreover, ppl who just stuck to ancient india forget dat its not about photografic image...one has to understand whole movement of modern art too at d same time as hussain had tried to create fusion of ancient heritage wth modern art. most ppl r unaware of basics of evolution of paintings across d globe-n opine just as religious person.
regarding jesus arguement i had already mentioned da vinci code..n movies too. any creative person has basic choice of subject..its all abt what is inpirationl to him/her...u cant force narsinh or meera to sing song on ram n blame him to just write abt krishna...islamic -christian heritage r nt so colorful as art subject(great christian painters turned themselves to paint pagan gods n visual form itself is suppressed under radical islam)- but u need to catch good paintings first to understand all this.
what few doubts abt bharatmata u hav raised is already answered by court -n i mentioned that. bharatmata is just century old concept potrayed in bankimchsandra's aanandmath when coutry has been given a female form of worshipped idol. at that time (19th century) our gods n goodessess had calander art in printing so laxmi to sarswati hasd south indian to gujarati sarees etc. in same form bharatmata had been visulised..now an artist can play wth the form n color...dats wat creative imagination is all about (n wat endorsed by d court too)...regarding objection against kalidas or sculptures in ancinet times- point is across d things all such things remain intact-means voice raised against them clearly thrown out by authorities then.
india by nature was against censorship wth religious mindset on art in sexyality..its impact aftr radical islam..(taalibani mindset created in india-exported to [pakistan) n victroian british catholic culture...so aftr middle time oyer defination of culture n values changed...rather, influenced...moreover, ppl who just stuck to ancient india forget dat its not about photografic image...one has to understand whole movement of modern art too at d same time as hussain had tried to create fusion of ancient heritage wth modern art. most ppl r unaware of basics of evolution of paintings across d globe-n opine just as religious person.
regarding jesus arguement i had already mentioned da vinci code..n movies too. any creative person has basic choice of subject..its all abt what is inpirationl to him/her...u cant force narsinh or meera to sing song on ram n blame him to just write abt krishna...islamic -christian heritage r nt so colorful as art subject(great christian painters turned themselves to paint pagan gods n visual form itself is suppressed under radical islam)- but u need to catch good paintings first to understand all this.
You go back to ancient India to support your point of view and the value system of that time and I am more concerned about the value system of the current era!!! which you don't take into account because you think it is the older one is better .. You say the artist can play with the form and colour...I say they cant play with the feelings of people you talk about creative imagination want me to catch good paintings to have better understanding of ....so now the discussion can move ahead only after I do that....in the mean time we will keep in touch...i wud much like chat with you like this but my only fear is that it will take so much of ur valuable time...
i am more concerned for real life value system n not artistic space value system..
Rea life value system...That is the best choice, as the artistic space value system falls under it..
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